People decide to sell their guitars.  Having owned them for 20 or 30 years they will likely have changed out some parts. Maybe an original PAF pickup got changed to a Dimarzio in the 70's,  the nut changed to brass in the 70's, pots replaced in the 80's and in the 90's a new bridge was installed. Maybe tuning pegs went bad and new ones were installed. This is not an "original" vintage guitar! It ceased being 100% original the moment that first part got changed!

The owner wants strong money for his "vintage guitar" but nobody will pay much for it with all those changes. He decides to put his guitar "back to original". (this happens all the time). Further, when his guitar is all rebuilt no one, not even the experts, will be able to tell the difference in it and one that is 100% original.  Anybody who says "They can't fool me" or "I can always tell" is a liar or an idiot!

I have been a "Vintage" guitar lover for years and it is amazing how many more vintage guitars there are for sale today than there were just a few years ago. Today the world is full of guitar cannibals. They rob parts off similar old guitars and pass them off as "originals". They also rob original parts and put aftermarket parts on the old guitars without telling prospective buyers the parts are not original. Then they sell the old parts at prices maybe 100 times higher than aftermarket prices. I see people with 15 to 20 vintage Strats in stock today when just 20 years ago there were no vintage Strats to be found anywhere at any price. You can believe these sellers if you want to. It's your money.

The truth is vintage guitars started bringing so much money back in the early 90's that people started counterfeiting them and now there are many!  The Vintage Guitar Dealers know exactly what I am telling you but they turn a deaf  ear and pretend it's not happening in their case.  Well it is and they know it! I don't mind telling you that I have no idea if every part on a guitar I have is 100% original and neither does anyone else!

There is a large cottage industry in Japan, Korea, Taiwan and even the Philippines that "re-manufactures" old Gibson parts, Fender parts. Some even counterfeit complete 50's & 60's Fender Guitars!  For that reason I don't do many Fenders. (It's harder and more expensive to try to counterfeit Gibson and Martin acoustics and hollow bodies than it is to counterfeit plank guitars like the Fenders).

I've recently seen every part imaginable offered for sale. PAF pickups, complete with sticker and authentic cigarette smoke mildew smell.  Fender Jazzmaster  tailpieces complete with Fender Logos and patent numbers, Strat and Tely necks complete with authentic stamp and signatures, Pick guards with 60's dated authentic stickers. At the fall Philly 1997 show a fellow was walking around with Fender neck plates, complete with the original die marks on the holes. He would actually make any plate with any serial number you wanted. The fellow was even giving out his phone number (that is rare). Usually these people want you to buy the items on the spot,  pay cash and then they quietly disappear. Another guy had a whole table of decals,  every single obscure decal that Fender ever made. Fender sued him and as far as I know he no longer goes to the guitar shows,  but you can bet your life savings that you can still buy these decals if you know who to ask and where to look.

Pickups cost less than two ($2.00) dollars to manufacture. Do the math! 35 cents  for a little wire, 33 cents for a plastic bobbin, and 6  magnets that are probably less than a nickel each.  All you need is a $600.00 winding machine. The packaging on new Gibson pickups probably costs more than the pickup itself cost to manufacture.  All the costs are in advertising, endorser royalties and packaging.  The point  is simple.  (YOU CAN NEVER BE TOO CAREFUL)

                       Here Comes the Payoff

The next piece of information I am going to tell you is probably the best and only way to tell if a guitar is real and original.  It may sound off the wall at first, but when you think about it for 30 seconds, you will see that I'm right.

                             So Here Goes:

The only way to really know if a Vintage Instrument (or anything for that matter) is truly original and unchanged  is to buy it from someone who has NO IDEA OF THE VALUE. The instant value becomes known things enter into the pricing equation that tend to taint originality. The temptation to pick up a few bucks worth of parts so as to make an inexpensive item an expensive "100% original" item is always there.

This does not hold true on lower cost Vintage Instruments because there is no reason for someone to go to the trouble and cost of recreating it. For example a 64 Mosrite guitar would be more likely to be original than a 62 Stratocaster because replacement parts are simply not available cheap and a Mosrite would cost more money to reproduce than it could fetch.  However, a 1962 Stratocaster could easily be accurately reproduced from end to end for less than $500.00 and in today's Vintage market bring $6,500.00 easily.

It's just as easy for a counterfeiter to make fake $50.00 bills as it is to make fake $1.00 bills. The same is true on guitars. I’d bet money a $200 strat  bought at grandma's yard sale has more original parts on it than any of the $7500.00 vintage strats sitting in the best known vintage instrument dealer's inventory. If you have been going to guitar shows you will recall that in the late 80's and early 90's few dealers there had old Fenders and Gibsons. Now when you go to a show you see many dealers with each one having as many as 20 or 25 Vintage Strats.  Where did all those older vintage strat guitars come from?

For that reason I tend to mostly deal in quality vintage instruments that have not yet reached demand levels that openly encourage counterfeiting and substitutions.
 

                                            Think About It !!!!

                                     )))))) IMPORTANT (((((((
  "A copy of a guitar is not a Forgery unless the person selling it to you tells you it's real"
Be EXTRA careful when a dealer says he doesn't know the history of a guitar.  He may be using this as a way of protecting himself if the guitar turns out to be bogus or fake.  Sometimes a dealer will tell you the guitar is on consignment when in fact he owns it outright.  In this way he hopes to escape any responsibility should you find out it's bogus later.

Make no mistake about 60's and 70's vintage guitars not holding their value.  As people get older the guitars that become valuable are the guitars that were being played 20 to 25 years back! The buyer is searching for a guitar like they once owned (or dreamed of owning) in their youth and have regretted letting get away from them ever since!

                                                         Discounted Guitars!

Some guitars are stamped or marked "second" and discounted while some are marked USED and discounted. Ever wonder what the difference was? There is a difference.

Guitars marked "2" or "second" have something wrong with them that prevents them from meeting the quality standards set for the guitar by the company. Inspectors spotted the problem before it left the factory. It may be that a tuner screw was placed so as to slightly misalign a tuner. It may be that there is a flaw in the finish and the cost of labor to correct the problem was more than would be lost by discounting the guitar and selling it as a factory second.  Misplaced screw holes can't be made to go away so slightly misaligned tuners are left as they are and the guitar marked second and sold at discount. These are all brand new guitars that have never been marketed that have something physically wrong with them that can't be corrected economically.

Guitars stamped "USED" are not seconds. Those marked USED are typically guitars that met factory standards when they left the factory.  Something happens after it's sold and the buyer returns it under warranty terms.  Maybe a tuner broke or the saddle cracked and a miffed owner returns the guitar under terms of the warranty. The factory sends a brand new guitar and a loyal customer is forever gained. The factory then simply replaces the broken part, stamps the guitar "USED" and markets it at a discount price just as they do their factory seconds. However, since it's not a second they mark the guitar USED thus preventing an unscrupulous dealer from buying it at discount and then selling it as a new below prices other dealers would have to charge for a similar new guitar.

On occasion you see one marked "second" and "USED".  This is typically a guitar that had a problem factory inspectors missed. The problem was not discovered until it reached the hands of a buyer. The buyer returns the guitar under terms of the warranty and gets a new guitar replacement. However, since the problem is beyond what can be corrected by parts changes it receives the "second" stamp plus it gets marked USED prior to marketing. The USED marking differentiates it from factory "seconds" that have not yet been sold before.

As with anything, there are probably exceptions to the above. However, the laws are such that no reputable company will try to represent a used item as new or misrepresent a second quality item as simply being a used guitar. No guitar maker worth it's salt would risk it's reputation by mislabeling or misrepresenting a guitar when they can mark it appropriately and recover it's actual cost at discount. Those marked USED are quality instruments as good as any used instrument not marked used. Those marked second have some physical quality that does not meet standards and the quality cannot be physically corrected or correction would be cost prohibitive.

1. Packing and Shipping Tips
2. How to Adjust Necks and set Intonation for proper playing action.
3. How to Set UP electric Guitars.
4. Taking Care of Guitar Finish
5. Fretboard care and Treatment (Fret Polishing, etc.)
6. Return to Main Page of The Old Closet!